Am over 50 and have hunted pheasant/grouse/quail and have had bird dogs all my live. Grew up with true old fashioned hunting stock (long legged, short eared and short haired) cockers and they were great. Switched to a trained, foot trialed "shoot to retrieve" Welsh Springer and she was my best ever. Another Springer died young and then switched to Brittanys as suggested by a hunting doctor friend. The first was from a national field trial champion sire and while I have loved all my dogs this one was my most miserable experience. Neurotic, hard charging, big running & hard headed. Needed a hourse for this one and he did not endear himself to my dog-loving wife. Never destined to be a foot handling dog. Even as a recent college football running back in my 20's I was unable to keep up in the pheasant field or the grouse woods. He burnt out and died young. Have had 5 more Brittanys since - all from 100% hunting or game farm breeding. All of my dogs are house companions and treated as part of the family. The last 5 have been great with very good temperament. All have been true foot handlers and the current three (two are only 10 months old) can be hunted together and handled by a 52 year old with knee problems and all three wait for me to follow. I am certain that it is the long lines of breeding that selected for these desirable traits that allows me to enjoy my time with them afield. Sorry, but no more field trial dogs for me, olny proven hunting stock that is capable of being well manered companions in the house, car, yard, field, woods and around visitors.

I horse back all age field trial, foot hunt for chukar (primarily), and breed pointers. All with the same dogs, and with the top all age bloodlines in the country. If you want the best dog, get the best bloodlines, and then give it the best training possible. People don't stop to think that you can't win an all age field trial very often with a dog that you can't see or one that doesn't come when you call it, especially if it is at extreme range. Having a well trained dog is the key, and a well trained owner is the secret to success with a well trained dog. When you have both of those, get the best bloodlines in the country and have a good time.

I thought about this long and hard.It's totally up to each individual on what he wants out of a dog.I made my decision on a yellow lab out of a field trial litter.I wanted a smart,birdy firecracker that I could count on and I believe that's what I got.Bottom line is trust the breeder/trainer to do his job and look for the pup that fits you know when to say no.

Ive also, thought about types of DOGS! what all hunters need to remember , am I going to be hunting and following the hunting seasons, or will I be using him for , my Owen particular hunting needs? Its a lot of work to keep. your dog sharp in the field!, if your hunting him for just the same season year after year.

I hunt afoot. I had a field trial bred pointer and she had the best nose of any dog I've owned! She also hunted in the next county until she was about 7-8. That would have been OK if I was hunting on horseback but on foot... She was the birdiest dog I have ever seen. If she didn't find a bird it wasn't there. I had a close hunting male pointer and he was a good hunter, but not like the female. I now have an English Setter and she is a wonderful foot dog (not field trial bred) and the best overall dog I have ever had, by far. Above all, if you get ANY breed for hunting, be sure that it is FDSB registered and NOT AKC! They're bred for show, not for hunting. Looks don't mean they can hunt! FDSB dogs are bred from proven hunting stock and they're smart! I got all my dogs when they were pups so that I could raise them to MY lifestyle and commands. They all have lived in our house as a member of our family, not in a kennel outside where they hardly know you! You better have a big yard if you get a field trial dog. They need to run!!!

That's crazy talk. There's no guarantee that a FDSB register litter is better than an AKC litter from champion lines (FC/AFC). Most great trial dogs will be registered in both. My two best bitches are primarily AKC and clearly not show bred given their size (small).

The lesson here is to do your homework. Do your research on the pedigree and look for champions in the first three generations (particularly parents and grands). Watch the parents work before buying a puppy. Real performance can't lie like paper. If the parents are junk, the pups will most likely be junk. If the parents are great, then the pups will be pretty good and maybe as good. If you're really, really lucky, a pup might be better.

breeding should be about the primary function of a dog IE for upland drive and bird finding abilities..biddable for training now with that said though trials are refined to a controlled environment to judge or score a dogs work from horseback trials to Foot trials AKC to NSTRA and all venues in between they all can serve a purpose for a breeding program...So if a person is breeding for a bird dog then the next level is the ability for a dog to learn what the handler trainer wants
and that is a foot hunter the dog should learn and train to that

So you may need to watch some on the ALL Age dogs even they learn to come around when train to do such

a companion hunter that is not interested in trialing is looking at a trial litter talk to the breeder as first the breed should know the over all tendencies in the pups as they have raised them
look for the middle of the pack pup one that will go investigate but also will come check out what you are doing is ok with not being the leader and that will make soft eye contact stay away from the pup that would rather do what it wants and doesn't care about what you or the breeder are doing.
this is just a general statement but the one that comes around and is interested in what our doing will follow a bit and then play and check things out will make the better companion after that it is training and should be polishing up a diamond in the rough as to what you want

I have "hunting" dogs and champion titled "trial" dogs. Given a perfect world, I'd rather hunt over the trial dogs. My trial dogs run and point birds with style and class. Have amazing ground speed and intelligent hunting application. Simply put, they are more fun in the field. To those concerned about distance, you can always shorten a dog through training, but its more difficult to get a short dog to hunt bigger. A smart, good handling dog will adapt to the type of cover. Besides, if the dog is broke, she'll be there when you get to her. With GPS collars, you can walk/ride straight to your dog on point.

Life's too short to hunt with a boring, ugly dog that barely hunts out of shotgun range.

The term "Field Trial Dog" is a very misunderstood term, As there are many, many differenent "Field Trial" formats. ALSO, since there are many, many different types of hunting done here in USA, one hunting dog is not the same as the next, Location and species will determine the type of dog that is needed to perform the job in an effective, pleasing performance.

Hunting the wide open plains in the Midwest is quite different from the grouse woods of the upper midwest which is also different than the grouse woods/mountains of the NorthEast/New England area. Then of course you have the Waterfowlers and the bird hunters that hunt upland birds with retrievers, AND we can not forget about the flushers.

When looking for the perfect hunting companion, find the breed that you desire and then find a breeder that produces and actually uses his own dogs in the same fashion that you are looking to use your pup for. Only then can you stack the cards in your favor in getting a pup that will perform as you want. When you buy a pup, find a breeder you can trust and believe in, as you are also getting that breeders knowledge and help with your training and hunting questions.

American Field or AKC, or what ever, there are great dogs in each breed, it is the research that will find the best match for you.

There are exceptions to every rule, but in today's declining economy, can a person afford to "take a chance" on a pup that "should" become the type of hunting companion you are looking for OR go with one that "will" become your perfect hunting companion?

Just the thoughts of a died in the wool grouse hunter in the NorthEast/New England region.

I have had several hunting dogs over the years that could be termed as "meat dogs". The pointer I have now is from top cover dog lines and she has taken the dog experience to the next level. I've been trialing her in the woods with some success and just having a ball with her. The trial lines have superior drive for sure and might not be for everyone.
It will be all field trial blood for me the rest of the way.

First I'd like to address the comment about only buy FDSB and not AKC well that is a very short sided comment that could only hold true for pointers and setters if that. All the Brittany National Champions and most if not all the German Shorthairs/Wirehairs and Vizlas that have won National titles are AKC registered. Who decided that the only kind of bird dog is an English Pointer or Setter? That being said I am a field trialer and hunter and like a few of the previous commentators I find that the good field trial dogs find by far the most birds when hunting wild birds in there native habitat when hunted with closer working dogs that most people would call hunting dogs. Yes a dog should adjust to cover if he's a great dog and let me be the first to say that a great field trial dog or a great hunting dog will do just that. A lot of the range we see in these "field trialdogs" is training we plant our birds in training to maximize the range of the dog and we encourage them to get out there - "Here" is not our most widely used commant needless to say. I'll be the first to admit that some of the all age dogs are extreme in their range and would be of little use to a foot hunter but you miss the purpose of this dog - this dog is the dog that you go to to improve the drive and range of a lesser dog when breeding. When you see this dog perform you are looking at the biggest running dog from his litter usually and the average of his offspring will most certainly be closer working but he increased the average range of his offspring - he hopefully improved the breed that is his purpose. Furthermore when you are buying a puppy out of state that you can not see the parents work - the only avenue you have to evaluate his ability is through the parents placement in field events. In my opinion most hunters if given the opportunity to own a great FDSB Shooting Dog or AKC Gun Dog they would be like a "Pig in Shit" . Great dogs are Great dogs - field trial dog/hunting dog it doesn't matter its the same dog just a little different training.

Absolutely, yes. The field trial blood should provide you with a dog that has plenty of drive, style and, believe it or not, handling. If purchased as a puppy and developed as a hunting dog (not allowed to reach out to their full, natural limits), then you have a much better chance with a pup out of trial stock developing into the type of hunting dog that you'll be proud to own.

I think you need to find a dog that fits your style of hunting and the places you hunt. If you like a dog to range out field trial stock could be for you. If you like to hunt heavy cover or small parcels of land then you might look else where. I like to watch my dogs work instead of finding them with a tracking collar and / or beeper so I do not look toward field trial stock much.

As for the comment as to what do field trial breeders do with dogs that don't cut it. The answer would probably be sell them to foot hunters in most cases.

Some others have made comment as to "meat dogs" and "field trial dogs" different hunting style or ability. I think that it starts with a first class breeder and good blood lines. Any dog can be the cream of the crop so to speak if the genetics are there and the proper training is done. I have dogs that do compete in the AKC hunt test system "not field trials" , and yes there is a big difference between the two.

I am also a member of the North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association (NAVHDA) and it is my belief that the NAVHDA testing is far superior to AKC testing. I also believe that if you are looking for a good hunting dog then you owe it to yourself to look into NAVHDA registered and breed dogs. Our dogs are tested on land and water, and to point , track and retrieve as well as being obedient loyal hunting companions and sometimes family pets as well.

Like any other kind of breeder, there are good Field Trial breeders, and not so good ones. The trick is not whether to choose a puppy from a Field Trial litter, but to choose a good breeder who is seeking to improve their breed over the long term. Anyone looking for a dog should prioritize good health and temperament above all else. This means that whether they seek a Field Trial litter puppy or not, they should make sure that the breeder only uses dogs with good temperaments for their job, preferably using temperament or aptitude testing to measure this in an objective way, and performs all of the health tests appropriate for their breed (www.offa.org; www.caninehealthinfo.org). Having a healthy puppy from healthy ancestors helps to ensure that a hunting dog will be able to hunt for the majority of their lifespan, and not fall apart after a few years of intense participation on the Field Trial circuit.

For some breeds a real division has arisen between lines with field ability, and lines without. For other breeds this is not the case however, and many times a hunter would be better served by looking to breeders who do not specialize in Field Trial litters, but rather breed for structural soundness, health and versatility. Many non Field Trial breeders incorporate successful Field Trial dogs into their breeding programs on a regular basis to maintain ability in their breed, and it would be a shame not to take advantage of their hard work and forethought by discounting their breeding programs as not being 'fieldy' enough. In my experience (in my breed), the main difference in field ability between Field Trial and non-Field Trial litters is drive and range (and it seems obvious to me that greater range is the result of greater drive). Nose, style, and brains can be found in many non-Field Trail litters. There are some ‘show’ breeders whose lines lack ancestors with field titles, and this is a problem, but breeders do not have to be hunters or Field Trialers to maintain hunting ability in their dogs. However, if they do not take the time to regularly test their puppies’ hunting ability by placing some puppies in hunting homes, participating in hunt tests and/or trials, and so on, they may see a steady decline in the field ability of their dogs. This is a great shame, and many breed clubs are currently considering making field titles mandatory for participation in their specialty shows in order to prevent this problem.
It is also true that there are some Field Trial breeders who have focussed so much on drive they have neglected structural soundness in their breeding programs, and this is equally a shame. Ther are also both show and field-oriented breeders who have created genetic bottlenecks in their breeding program by repeatedly and perpetually breeding back to their own line. This is a shortsighted approach that serves neither their breed, nor their puppy buyers. The best breeders produce dogs that can be successful in the field, in the show ring, and in the home.

I humbly recommend that hunters not focus on Field Trial litters, and instead work with breeders whose lines have regularly produced capable hunting dogs, and who perform the tests that will ensure health, structural soundness, longevity, and hunting ability. After all, most hunters want a dog that will do their job in the field while also being a long-lived member of their family. If there are several field titles in the litters pedigree (AFC, MH, NAVDHA UT and so on), this is sufficient information to know that there is hunting ability in that litter. From that point it is up to the breeder to determine which puppies have the most field potential, and to place those puppies in homes that will provide lots of opportunity to use that potential.

I just did this same thing. Saturday I brought home a little Weimeraner from a terrific field pedigree. His father just completed his FC. And on both top and bottom of the pedigree it is loaded with -- DC, FC, AFC, NFC, NAFC,MH and other field titles.
If you train the pup to hunt for the foot hunter, that is how he/she will work.
I have another Weim and this is how she hunts.
Best of luck in your decisions

Tresha
Lincoln, NE

Depends on what the hunter expects of his bird dog. If he is only interested in meat hunting, and killing as many birds as he can, or if he wants to compete in trials, then he wants a tough, birdy racehorse with a good nose that he can forcebreak to retrieve. If he is interested in having a hunting companion that is devoted to him both in the field and in the house, that works hard for him, and is a biddable and WILLING partner he should not consider a field trial bred dog. His wife will appreciate it too, as she will not have to put up with an overwired animal in the house. He should get a "gentleman"s shooting dog". The Ryman type English Setters fit this description.

Yep, the Field Trial pup works best. I bought a Golden Retriever with a long pedigree of Field Trial and Hunting champions. Best doggone dog ever!

From early childhood to my mid 40s, my father and I have had a total of seven German Shorthaired Pointers. Four of them were field trial bred and the rest were bred specifically for upland game. All of the dogs were very carefully selected with assistance from the breader, based on what we stated we were looking for in a dog (endurance, good nose, eager to please, good around noises). Maybe this isn't what the pros would do, but it has worked out well for me. My two favorite dogs were split, one a hunter and one a field trial dog. They both turned out to be the best darn upland hunters ever. My newest dog is a field trial dog and already shows tremendous promise for hunting. He has the best nose my buddies or I have ever seen. He simply hates to quit till he has made sure every bird has been found. He runs at half-speed all day long without quitting. When we work a field and don't get a bird, I know there weren't any to be found. Best of all, his training was unbelievably simple. All I've ever had to do is reinforce his instinctive behaviors.

In summary, a well bred dog is a well bred dog. Buy the one that matches what you are looking for and it won't matter if they are bred for trials or hunting.

Hi...I,ve been around hunting dogs and field trial dogs for 25 years.....and what i have found is that most good hunting dogs come from field trial dogs....your lucky if you breed a field trial litter and get 1 or 2 the will be field trial dogs....most of them just make good hunting dogs......the rest of it is all about the training....i have seen the best field trial dogs hunt for there owners....ITS ALL ABOUT HOW YOU TRAIN THEM....its always best to get the best breeding you can get.

I have two dogs from field trial breeding. One is a flusher(Golden) and the other is a pointer(Brittany). Different breeds, different temparments, but both have all the hunting instinct one could expect or want from their respective breeds. I researched the piointing breeds before settling on the Britt. They are as a whole, the most family friendly and closest working while the pointer is generally the other extreme. So, play the odds and pick the breed characteristics you desire but if you want a bird dog, play the odds once again and go from field trial dogs.

I have been a breeder for twenty some years. My GSP's are hunting/show stock. In short I believe any dog is what you put into it. Mine have to go to homes that are also making them a family member. I truly believe if you are an experienced "dog" person it should not matter. If you are just starting out, stick with a on foot hunter. They may be a bit calmer from the start. I have a Nastra type setter that I've made into a house companion. He is awsome in the house and awsome in the field/water or anything else I ask of him. Hence, it is what you put into them. LOL He is probably the first in his line to be a house dog!!

Many field trial dogs produce excellent personal hunting dogs, and others don't. The important thing is to find a trustworthy, ethical breeder who wants to place the right puppy with the right owners. (If the breeder doesn't ask you about your lifestyle and your expectations of a dog, don't even THINK about buying from him/her.) A good breeder will be honest about what to expect from the pups. When you're considering a puppy, you want to know as much as possible about the sire and dam, AND their parents, brothers, sisters, aunts and uncles - hunting ability, health, temperament and appearance. The more you know about the dogs' family tree, the better you can predict what the pup will be like. One more thing - field trial dogs are not necessarily "overwired" or hard to live with! (OK, they're generally the high-energy type, but most of them are capable of learning good house manners.) I have a cherished photo of a very successful field trial dog draped across my lap during a week-long visit to our house; he was a true gentleman and a delight to be around.

As a breeder and trainer, we have found that pups from our field trial stock do not sell to hunters. The field trial stock are TOO energetic for upland and duck hunters. They want a more laid back dog. In our area, there are not many field trial type hunters. So our puppies from field trial stock are wasted....Our thought is to look to a breeder for the type of dog you are interested in. Field trial for high energy/activity(younger hunter) or hunting stock for a slower pace hunt(older hunter).

There should be no reason not to. The chances of getting a pup from this type of litter that will be field trial capable is very slim. Perhaps one pup in the entire litter will be of field trial quality. For the hunter, the genetics of such a breeding should provide a dog with the abilities he/she are looking for. Many people fear that filed trial bred dogs will run too far ahead, be hard headed and difficult to train. Just the oposite is really the case. I have owned many shorthairs from field trial bred litters and they have been wonderful foot hunting dogs. Remember the old saying..."It's the Indian, not the arrow."

A prospective buyer needs to be clear about his/her expectations from the dog. That being settled, the buyer should be very clear about what they want when speaking with the breeder/broker. Knowing the breeder and the type of dogs produced by the kennel is the responsibility of the buyer. Do your research--ask for references, read blogs, elist postings or magazine articles/ads, visit field trials and talk with exhibitors. In the years I've been a buyer and breeder of English Setters, I have never gotten or sold a dog that wasn't exactly what I wanted or represented it to be. I believe that all pet sales are not final, that the breeder/broker should have first right of refusal on or take back any animal they sell if the buyer is not happy with it. I have bought back 8 year old dogs and rehomed dogs for buyers who wanted to let the dogs go through no fault of the animal. My current English Setter, a Llewellin, was located for me by a breeder/broker based on the description of what I was looking for in a dog. He hit the mark dead on! The dog has been everything I hoped for and more. Good luck--hope you find what you are looking for. Lynn Hamilton

>>I believe that all pet sales are not final, that the breeder/broker should have first right of refusal on or take back any animal they sell if the buyer is not happy with it. I have bought back 8 year old dogs and rehomed dogs for buyers who wanted to let the dogs go through no fault of the animal.<<

Lynn, Thanks for the above comment. This is worth repeating. ALWAYS buy a dog from a reputable breeder. There are many ways to establish this. Maybe a new posting on this subject is in order...

hi i would like to way in on this i beleive its all about training my alllage gsp hunts for me at about 150yrds at the most i also guide with this dog on a persevre and he knows the difference from competeing and hunting thats why i say training is the correct answer to the post saying i had one and it was in the next county hunting but had a great nose wich bings me to my next coment field triales breed to improve the breed not to sell puppies so they sould be of a higher caliber of dog then the ones out of a back yard breeding but the have to be trained to do what there masters want and when to do it anyways i would buy from proven stock and always look at the sire and dam hunt if they are what you are lookin for then ask the breeder why he is breeding the two they should always say im tryin to fix something better nose more style what ever and it should be easy to see by lookin at the two dam points 10 feet off birds sire points 20 feet off type deal that will let you know you are dealing with someone tryin to improve the breed but imho it comes down to training training training did i say it enough i would invite anyone to hunt behind my fc/afc/american field all age champion and then we will get the horses out and go for a ride and you can see the difference